¤ Deckbuilding Strategies

(by various authors from the Usenet Neswgroup, compiled by Orpheus)

Here are some exerpts from some Usenet Threads.

Orpheus : I have tried a while ago to summarize the various possible tactics that you
have to include in a deck. I would like people to tell me if they find it
interesting / convincing or not at all. Depending on if you're playing a
very focused deck or not, you should pick either one from each category, or
a major and a minor one.
The three categories would be :

ATTACK : how you intend to kill your prey
DEFENSE : how you intend to stop your predator
COMBAT : what you do when you get into combat.

Of course, very, VERY focused decks will maybe totally ignore one of the
categories, but except Combat, which could be a dangerous choice, I don't
see how they could win... Oh, yes, the Minion Tap / 5th. Whatever.

Inside each category are 4 choices :

ATTACK :
- Stealth, preferably with something to make big bleeds
- Crowding, meaning getting lots of vampires out there (may be weenies, but
doesn't have to)
- Dissuasion, where the prey prefers to let you pass your bleed rather than
lose a vampire ; this also includes intercept / and kill tactics.
- Vote : no comment.

DEFENSE :
- Intercept, mainly directed against stealth decks, but which could also be
used to prevent your predator from equipping
- Redirections, including all the redirecting cards
- Rush, where you don't care if they bleed you, when your turn comes they'll
die anyway...
- Go Fast : you don't care if they'll bleed you, you'll kill your prey
before, and you'll gain 6 pool, and if you're fast enough get everyone also
(usually goes with Stealth or Crowd attacks...).

I didn't include Voting in Defense, as it didn't seem to me to be the best way to defend from
your prey ; I didn't include the necessity of defending from votes, or some
other aspects of the game : what I put in my schematics is IMHO what should
be the main concerns of deck-buidling, but of course you can add lots of
cards not in these categories in order to be a little less predictable.

COMBAT :
- Ranged
- Close
- Dodge / CE (includes Obediences ; usually comes with a handful of
manoeuvers to avoid IG)
- Reduce, where you chose to inflict basic damage but to use fortitude (or a
lot of Jackets !) for surviving.

Greyseer :

Something to add to the Attack strategies. Maybe call it Attrition or
Upkeep. Things like, Smiling Jack, Anarch Revolt, Army of Rats, Antediluvian
Awakening. Another is just directly beating all of your preys vampires into
torpor, not even dissuasion, just running straight in there and punching
them into the ground.

Sten During :

Just a comment on your DEFENCE-choises.

I'd say that COMBAT kind of takes care of the Rush-alternative, and Go-Fast isn't really a DEFENCE-alternative. I'd say that it's one of the ways to go for "very, VERY focused decks". Speed-bleeders quite often just don't care about their own backs.

Chris Berger :

Personally, I tend to group things into:

Offense : what you intend to do to oust your prey
Bleed Defense : what you intend to do about bleeding
Vote Defense : what you intend to do about voting
Combat Defense : what you intend to do when you get into combat

I might have posted this before (although I had one post which
mysteriously never showed up, and it might have been the one where I
went into this), but here's some possible combinations:

Brujah rush deck - Offense : rush, and swarm bleed
Bleed Defense : intimidation / rush the bleeders
Vote Defense : intimidation / rush the voters
Combat Defense : fight back

Malkav S&B - Offense : stealth bleed
Bleed Defense : bounce (or Wake and Obedience)
Vote Defense : Delaying Tactics (or use voters)
Combat Defense : Obedience

Setite Corruption - Offense : steal vamps and swarm bleed
Bleed Defense : Ecstasy (with Wakes)
Vote Defense : DT (or voters + Dread Gaze)
Combat Defense : maneuvers and S:CE

Personally I feel that "what a deck does" can be effectively summed up in these 4 things. If you consider "defense" to only be bleed defense, then you miss out on one of the powerful ways to oust you. And combat is not an end unto itself, but simply a path along the way to either your offense or your defense. Granted, a deck which uses combat as its main offense will usually use the same thing for its combat defense, but all decks need to think about bleed defense, combat defense, and vote defense, even if your answer to vote defense is to ignore it.

Tobias also made interesting comments on Deckbuilding :

"I guess strategy is a thing determined during deck construction, and during play you utilize tactics as much as possible to complete the overall strategy. It becomes more tricky when the overall strategy is doomed to failure (for instance, a weenie praxis deck that doesn't draw into praxis before 6 hostile votes hit the table) due to
developments on the table. At that point, it's a matter of abandoning the strategy and playing seat-of-the-pants tactics as much as possible.

That may be an interesting discussion in and of itself - at what point are you forced to deviate from your strategy? Are strong decks those that have a strategy, and are not easily forced away from that strategy? (The difference between a 'fragile' (Turbo Baron) deck with a clear strategy, but the strategy is easily thwarted, and a mid-cap toolbox deck (unclear strategy, but barring jam, should be able to both go forward and defend a loooong time).

I guess I'm dwelling into the area of deck construction again, but I guess decks could be rated on several scales:

Focused <--> Toolbox
Fragile <--> Robust
Forward <--> Defensive
Agressive Pro Combat <--> Defensive/Avoid Combat

The most interesting scale being the Fragile/Robust one, imho, since it may be the best determination of a 'good' deck."

 

Another thread, which is in fact part of Sten During's October 2002 Toreador Newsletter :

Strategy:

Several threads have touched the topic of strategy and tactics. For me strategy is the part you should be done with before you arrive at a tournament. When finally there it's all tactics.

A player will build a strategy. The player doesn't have to be aware of it, but there are some questions that are answered, incorrectly or not, before the tournament.

1) What kind of deck do I want to play?
2) What kind of decks will I meet?
3) What kind of players will I meet?

When actually aware of his or her planning in advance some other questions arise.

1 a) How do I give my preferred deck an ousting edge?
1 b) Which kind of defence do I want to use?
1 b 1) Combat avoidance, combat escape or fight back?
1 b 2) Bleed bounce, bleed soak, bloat or intercept?
1 b 3) Anti votes or gain permanent votes?
1 b 4) Against what do I chose to stand helpless?

2 a) How do I overcome the defence of other decks?
2 a 1) Stealth through, block denial or fight through?
2 a 2) Active ousting, block everything or the waiting game?

3 a) Do people help someone crosstable or do they attack instead?
3 b) Table diplomacy or focused prey-ousting?

4) What's my reputation among the players I belive I'll meet?
4 a) Make that reputation come true or surprise them?

Of course implementing a strategy is seldom done this way, so I'll try to describe how I actually did it last time.

Planning before a tournament:

As players were bound to start packing equipmentdestruction or cards for stealing equipment I thought I'd try a good old Toreador tactics for a change.
Answering questions 1) and 2)

Concealed Weapon was another card I thought would be prominent, so I decided to risk being vulnerable to Immortal Grapple - gambling on players avoiding close combat Potence.
Answering question 1 b 4)

One year ago I made an attempt at using Toreador with Obfuscate, and the idea of reworking that deck applealed to me. Still, that one was a gun-deck, and for the upcoming tournament my strategy was to escape combat.
Answering question 1 b 1)

I want to make a clean Toreador deck. I want to reuse part of an old deck in order to exploit something that worked and should work better with the new vampires available. I'll avoid combat this time as players expect me to come running with blazing guns. Voting and bleeding with Mask of a Thousand Faces and get out of combat if blocked.
Answering questions 1), 1 a), 1 b 1), 1 b 3), 2 a 1) and 4 a)

We now have six Toreador with inferior Obfuscate, and they are:

Antoinette, She Who Watches
Sect: Camarilla
Group: 3
Clan: Toreador
Capacity: 6
Discipline: PRE AUS obf cel
Cardtext: Camarilla primogen

Francois Villon
Sect: Camarilla
Group: 2
Clan: Toreador
Capacity: 10
Discipline: PRE CEL AUS pot obf chi
Cardtext: Camarilla Prince of Paris: Francois may steal up to 2 blood
from a younger vampire as a +1 stealth (D) action. +1 bleed.

Helena
Sect: Camarilla
Group: 3
Clan: Toreador
Capacity: 10
Discipline: DOM CEL AUS tha pre obf
Cardtext: Camarilla: If Helena is tapped and ready, she can burn a blood
to be able to attempt to block and/or play reaction cards that require
Auspex as if untapped for the remainder of the action. +1 bleed.

Joaquin Murietta
Sect: Camarilla
Group: 3
Clan: Toreador
Capacity: 9
Discipline: CEL AUS qui pre obf
Cardtext: Camarilla: Joaquin gets an optional additional strike in the
first round of combat. At long range, his strikes with guns are at +1
damage.

Klaus van der Veken
Sect: Camarilla
Group: 2
Clan: Toreador
Capacity: 9
Discipline: PRE CEL tha obf aus
Cardtext: Camarilla Prince of Amsterdam: Klaus may cancel the effects of
one of your prey's hunting grounds.

Suzanne Kadim
Sect: Camarilla
Group: 3
Clan: Toreador
Capacity: 7
Discipline: PRE CEL obf dom aus
Cardtext: Camarilla: +1 bleed

Two princes and one Primogen. All the titled with superior Presence
and one of the untitled as well. It looks like a good start for a
political deck.
Answering question 1 a)

Still, only two princes. So, how do we get the most out of this? In order to get some more votingpower on the table we'd like some more votes. I had the idea to combine Toreador Grand Ball with Mask of a thousand Faces earlier and decided to add in the seemingly pointless Aching Beauty to the combination.
Answering questions 1 a) and 2 a 1)

Parity Shift and Kine Resources Contested were easy enough choices and then on a whim I added some Camarilla Exemplary. The votes would go together with the rather obvious Bewitching Oration and Voter Captivation.
Answering question 1 a) and 1 b 2)

Apart from the built in extra bleed in some of the vampires, a small addition of Pulse of the Canaille and some Enchant Kindred seemed a good idea. The latter turned out to be a very good choise as they, at superior, greatly speeded up some extra voting power.
Answering questions 1 a)

The combination allows you to create an unblockable voter who doesn't need any Obfuscate. You just call the vote and use Mask of a thousand Faces to complete the already unblockable political action. Of course you can't vote forever, so the occasional + bleed followed by a masked Aching Beauty with Camarilla Exemplary gives you an extra edge.
Answering question 1 a)

I have tried the core-idea both as a gun-deck and as a Strike: Combat Ends deck. With guns you'll probably want more Parity Shift rather than Kine Resources Contested. No matter which version, the expensive Master Locations as well as Aching Beauty are to be paid for primarily by the Parity Shifts as it gives you an opportunity to get some extra defensive edge and let your prey pay for it.
Answering questions 1 a) and 1 b 2)

Let's risk Thoughts Betrayed and Immortal Grapple. If we're going to run away from combat we can as well leave room for another action or prepare for additional defence. Majesty it is.
Answering questions 1 a), 1 b 2) and 1 b 4)

Telepathic Misdirection is a favourite of mine. Bleed bounce or intercept. I will also need to be able to wake as my vampires are rather large. As long as I have Majesty on hand I should probably try to block rather than bounce.
Answering questions 1 b 1) and 1 b 2)

(snap deck)

In reality I didn't structure my thinking this way. I just really wanted to make better this tournament than the last half a year or so. However, in difference from before those tournaments, I did accept that I had to change a preferred deck in order to make a better result.

Here, I hope you'll find these comments as useful and interesting as I did,

Orpheus